Posted: Sep 29 2007 at 7:17pm | IP Logged

As it turns out I am an AMSOIL dealer. I didn't say so earlier becuase I didn't want to be accused of advertising in the forum which is prohibited. However, if I have information relative to the topic at hand I feel it is okay for me to contribute to the conversation.

In regards to Oil Analyzers Inc. being impartial since it is associated with AMSOIL, this is not an issue as far as I am concerned. AMSOIL offers the best warranty in the industry regarding their lubricants. If your engine is damaged as a result of using AMSOIL's lubricants with their recommended drain intervals (which are much longer than any other company's), they will pay for repair or replacement of your engine. Knowing this, it is defenitely not in their best interest to fudge the data on your oil analysis. They definitely don't want to pay to have your engine fixed as a result of giving you inaccurate test results.

In regards to Mobil 1, they do have some group III conventional oil in their "fully synthetic" oils. Although they do consist of PAO's (poly-alpha-olephins) which is a true synthetic component, they do use some group III petroleum in their formulation. That's why you got the "proprietary" response when you asked them about it. "Fully synthetic" is actually a legal term in the US which allows companies using highly purified petroleum base stocks (Group III) to label their products as fully synthetic. The term used for products that have only Group IV PAO is "100% synthetic". AMSOIL lubricants (with the exception of their XL line) is comprised of only PAO base stocks and therefore is legally allowed to use the 100% synthetic labeling on their products.

Does it actually make a difference if you use AMSOIL or Mobil 1? You may not be able to observe the difference but inside you engine differences will exist. We have shown this with independent laboratory testing (http://www.genuine-synthetics.com/AMvsM1.html). With this knowledge it was an easy decision for me. I used AMSOIL products for years before I became a dealer. I think that is how most AMSOIL dealers get started. By the way, most of our customers are former Mobil 1 users.

Posted: Nov 15 2007 at 3:48am | IP Logged

A few questions, and comments....

did you do a complete drain on the amsoil at 6000km (approx. 3700 miles)? If so..I would argue you wouldn't be getting your money's worth out of that oil at all, unless you are using this as a "flush/rinse".

When you say that you gave them a new sample? Did you provide a virgin oil as well as your drained sample? Did they mention anything about Si levels being high, is it dusty where you are at...is your air filter old? Si is used in some formulations as anti-foaming agent, but also can be ingested into the engine by bad filtration, which is not good because it basically is like sand blasting your engine over long periods of time, if it continues to build up.

Was this the highest end or 100% synthetic or amsoils a little bit cheaper synthetic? I would guess their high end is almost all PAO and their cheaper line is blend of grp III maybe...group IV? our resident amsoil guy could answer that better. Copper seems a little high as well for this short of a run. Will be interesting to note how it trends with successive OCI's/UOA's. Na levels, were they zero?

Another thing of note is that this seems like a it's on the very low end of the 30W viscosity range. a tiny bit of shearing as your V100 dropped, but nothing too bad. Did you have a TBN number with the analysis as well?

Here is my last UOA side by side with the VOA/new oil: (note it doesn't look great, but I am working with a coolant leak and perhaps some fuel dilution, also I had used a bottle of chevron techron concentrate plus prior to the drain, have heard that that could have caused the spike in the Pb levels, i am thinking about having an analysis run on some fresh techron to see what it has in it, though i know that it's main ingredients include stoddard solvent. air filter was dirty as hell, south texas is dusty and it was changed at the time of this drain, i am hoping this level goes down for such a short OCI. Right now tho I am running a mad scientist mix of M1 oils (some 10W30/5W30 EP and some 5W30 regular M1, about 1:1:3 ratio)

Mobil 1 5W-30

Miles on Oil 4693

Miles on vehicle: 66682

Used/New  

V100: 11.13 / 11.48
V40: 65.48 / 66.47
VI: 165 / 169
TBN: 2.57 /  7.72

Elemental Analysis

Ag 0 / 0
Al 4 / 1
B 45 / 102
Ba 0 / 0
ca 2429 / 2530
Cd 0 / 0
Cr 2 / 0
Cu 7 / 0
Fe 18 / 1
K 8 / 1
Mn 0 / 0
Mo 92 / 94
Na 19 / 7
Ni 0 / 0
P 671 / 749
Pb 18 / 0
S 1850 / 1770
Sb 1 / 1
Si 23 / 3
Sn 0 / 0
Ti 0 / 0
V 0 / 0
Zn 828 / 837

Posted: Nov 16 2007 at 12:56am | IP Logged

It's nice to see you folks taking advantage of oil analysis capabilities and getting the most from your high-end motor oils. Well done.

Posted: Nov 16 2007 at 2:53am | IP Logged

I am not sure what you mean by my numbers being all over the place, as I stated before, I could have a fuel dilution issue, which would be possible with severe service driving conditions (i.e. stop and go, all city driving), I also could have some "contamination" from using fuel system cleaner, as well as perhaps the coolant issue.

As synthetic oil already stated, a TBN would be important for determining the longevity of an oil, now usually higher number could be deemed as being "better" for extended drains, because you could see that as having the ability to neutralize those acidic by-products mentioned for a longer period of time. That is not always the case for a variety of reasons, but oils that are more robust in terms of their add-packs tend to have higher TBN's from what i've seen. If they didn't explain that, then, I would question them on that next time you have a sample analyzed, especially since youa re looking to maximize your OCI.

My random mix of oils was not on this current UOA that I posted. I was tryign to take advantage of a little more robust add pack supposedly from the EP line from M1, althought after my VOA on that sample, since it was a 3:1:1 ratio from what I stated above, the end result was not that different, than the straight M1 5W-30. I was also trying to thicken up the straight 5W-30 as well by adding the 10W-30, in reality I should have tried some of the 0W-40 or 10W-40 and mixed it to thicken it up a little more. I'm not really worried about sorting the results out per what line of M1...if it is a good UOA, it is a good UOA, then I know it handled well. Althought I am most likely going to use some M1 HM next time around as well. Hell in the end, I might decide that M1 isn't for my engine, read some good things about Penzoil Platinum as well.

It will be interesting to see how this works out, I might take a sample just prior to my full drain especially if I use another fuel additive just prior to end of OCI. Then have a comparison on that. I will definitely keep it posted when I have it done. I am on a quest to find the best oil for my truck, as I think i've mentioned before some oils hold up better than others to certain stresses.

Another question, with your Amsoil being fairly light in the 30W viscosity range, do you hear any valve train noise on cold starts?

As far as your Si levels, I would disagree with the statement that outside contaminants are not the issue, only the oil longevity, what makes you think that outside contaminants wouldn't affect the oil's longevity. As I stated before, some oils use Si as an anti-foaming additive, but super high levels of that are like having sand in your engine, and is your oils detergent/dispersant properties can't handle this and/or these things aren't filtered it acts as a sandblaster basically, which theoretically might cause increase in wear metals. What air filter are you using?

Posted: Nov 17 2007 at 6:12am | IP Logged

Mileage is all about friction and the use of the "choke" in cold weather.  Today's "choke is computer controlled use of the injectors.  More fuel is used until the engine warms up.  SO cold starts on cold days and short trips will really lower your mileage.

Friction can be reduced by using lower viscosity oil products so that the oil is not as stiff in cold weather at startup.  That property is described by the first number with a W in the range, ie 5W-30 which will behave likea 5W old when cold as opposed to a 10W-30 that behaves like a thicker 10W oil when cold.  Both will behave like a 30W oil when hot.  Synthetic oils generally pour much better (they are not as "stiff") at a given cold temperature than "dino" oils so using a synthetic motor oil in the correct viscosity range will help at low temps.  So will the use of synthetic gear and trans fluids.  I know that Mobil makes a 0W-30 for use in very cold areas of the country for winter driving.

The other way that friction is reduced is through the use of synthetic oils that have particular molecular architecture to minimize friction.  I have typically found in GM vehicles over the years that the use of Mobil 1, for example, would increase my gas mileage by about 1-1.5 mpg in a V-8 engine.  I run 5W-30 Mobil 1 in my new Nissan Frontier.

Also, drive like you have an egg under the gas pedal.  Anticipate stops and roll up to them with your foot off the gas.  Keep your tires inflated to at least the level recommended on the door and remeber that air pressure in tires goes DOWN as the temperature goes down.  Make sure fuel and air filters are clean and changed on a regular basis and remeber that high ethanol content fuels will give you fewer MPG, everything else being equal.